No. 339
Posted on 2025/3/4

150th Anniversary Project
"Aogaku Mind Opening Up the Future"

Pursuing what's interesting and uncovering the unknown

| Alumni and Graduates |

Professor, Graduate School of Engineering, Nagoya University
Hiroshi Sawa

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Graduate Graduate School of Science and Engineering Department of Science and Engineering, Chemistry Course
Doctoral course 1st year

Reo Ono

In 2024, Aoyama celebrates its 150th anniversary. Graduates who have left the institute are active in a wide range of fields, making the most of what they learned during their studies at the institute. In this issue, Mr. Reo Ohno, who aspires to become a researcher in the field of chemistry, interviews Professor Hiroshi Sawa of Nagoya University, who has been active at the forefront of structural properties research for many years and is constantly pioneering new fields, working on copper oxide high-temperature superconductors, which attracted worldwide attention at the time at Aoyama Gakuin University College of Science and Engineering. The discussion proceeded on a wide variety of topics, including inspiring moments as a researcher and the awareness one should have.

Profile

Professor, Graduate School of Engineering, Nagoya University

Hiroshi Sawa

Aoyama Gakuin University College of Science and Engineering D. in Physics from the Department of Physics, Graduate School of Physics, Graduate School of Science and Engineering (Doctor of Science, Aoyama Gakuin University). Aoyama Gakuin University College of Science and Engineering After working as a Research Associate, Research Associate at the Institute for Solid State Physics, University of Tokyo, and Associate Professor at the Faculty of Science, Chiba University, he became Associate Professor at the Institute for Materials Structure Science, High Energy Accelerator Research Organization (KEK) in 2001 and Professor at the same institute in 2005. He has been active at the forefront of structural materials research using synchrotron radiation X-ray diffraction, and has been a professor at the Graduate School of Engineering, Nagoya University since 2008, where he is committed to fostering future leaders in the field.

Graduate Graduate School of Science and Engineering Department of Science and Engineering, Chemistry Course, 1st year doctoral student

Reo Ono

Tokyo, private Aoyama Gakuin Senior High School From

He has been interested in luminescent materials since middle school and high school, and went on to study at Department of Chemistry and Biological Science the Faculty College of Science and Engineering and Engineering Aoyama Gakuin University, where he can conduct cutting-edge research. In the Coordination Chemistry Laboratory of Professor Hasegawa Miki, he is conducting research on molecules containing luminescent rare earths, particularly working on creating new optical functions at interfaces. In the future, he aims to become a researcher who can provide society with new materials and concepts through research and development. During his undergraduate years, he was a member of the university's archery club, where he developed a tenacious attitude and the ability to work together with others. In 2024, he won the "The Best Award; Poster Presentation" at "Phosphor Safari 2024" held in Taiwan.

TALK THEME

1st TALK

"What has been the most moving thing that has happened to you so far?"

Approaching the unknown world of natural science,
It's an emotional moment when you uncover the truth yourself.

I have been interested in luminescent materials since I was in junior high and high school, and decided to specialize in chemistry. I am currently affiliated with Professor Miki Hasegawa's laboratory, and am researching molecules that contain luminescent rare earths. Professor Sawa, why did you choose to study physics?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

I loved science fiction novels from an early age. This influenced me to like themes that physics deals with, such as the mysteries of the universe, and on top of that, I was not good at memorizing things. In chemistry, there are mountains of things that you have to remember. However, the best part of physics is assembling minimal information to solve problems. When I was in high school and thinking about my future career, I decided to major in physics at university, taking into account my interests and aptitude.

What was it like studying physics at Aoyama Gakuin University?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

I had the impression that the professors at Aoyama Gakuin University were extremely enthusiastic. To be honest, I found it difficult to live up to their enthusiasm, but physics is a difficult field to study and understand on your own. So students held study sessions together and competed with each other.

It seems like it would be fun for students to teach each other. When you were assigned to the lab, were you already thinking about becoming a researcher?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

I never even dreamed of it. I believe it was largely down to chance and luck that I was able to become a researcher. During graduate school, I belonged to the laboratory of Professor Jun Akimitsu (Professor Emeritus, Aoyama Gakuin University), who studies condensed matter physics. In 1986, Bednorz and Muller discovered copper oxide high-temperature superconductors, and researchers from all over the world were in a frenzy as they hunted for new high-temperature superconducting materials. The Akimitsu Laboratory was a renowned laboratory that discovered many noteworthy new materials and achieved great research results, and I was passionate about researching there.

In this successful research project, I was in charge of some of the material identification*. In order to find superconductors, it is necessary to clarify the structure and properties of materials, and material identification was a "skill that allows you to appraise treasures." In other words, I was able to acquire the ability to make appropriate judgments about whether or not to proceed with research on a material. I was also able to make use of the programming skills I had learned by myself. Looking back now, I think that these experiences led me to continue research in the world of condensed matter physics.

*Clarifying the composition of a compound (what atoms are contained and in what proportions) and how they are bonded to form a substance.

You took your first steps as a researcher at a time when the world was undergoing major changes.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

Young researchers all over Japan were saying, "This is so interesting, I just can't help it." How many papers have you written so far, Mr. Ohno?

I have two or three papers currently being submitted and one co-authored paper. I also had the opportunity to write a chapter in a book on rare earth complexes in English with Professor Hasegawa, which was just published in November 2024.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

That's great. How many papers do you think you'll have by the time you finish your doctoral program?

Yes, about five.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

By the time I completed my doctoral program, I had published 17 related papers.

17 bottles? That's amazing.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

Through collaborative research with researchers from all over Japan, we were able to accumulate results that an ordinary graduate student would not have been able to experience. It is rare for such a fever to occur in the world of physics. It was a very memorable and impressive event.

After finishing your student days in the midst of the fever, was there anything that inspires you about continuing your research?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

The most moving moment a researcher can experience is when he approaches the unknown world of natural science and learns the truth about something he has been studying for many years. In the movie "Jurassic Park," there is a scene in which Dr. Grant, who has studied dinosaurs by excavating fossils, visits the theme park "Jurassic Park" and is deeply moved when he encounters a living dinosaur for the first time. I think that scene well represents the emotions felt by researchers.

The excitement doesn't end there. When you solve a problem that has plagued researchers all over the world, it's a deeply moving experience, as if you've snapped the last piece of a giant jigsaw puzzle into place. However, if you take a step back to look at the picture with the pieces in place, you'll find that it's actually just one piece of a larger puzzle. Just when you think you've solved it, you'll realize that there's a new, more profound phenomenon hidden within. The fascinating thing about research is that you can never see the whole picture, no matter how much time passes.

I have encountered many moving scenes with the young researchers I have worked with during the course of our research. Such experiences may determine the direction a person will take as a researcher.

I'm looking forward to having that experience someday.

Ono


2nd TALK

What is important to you in your research?

Doing things that other people don't do

Professor Sawa, you explain your research field with the new term "structural physics." Could you please tell us about your current research?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

Structural properties research is a method to clarify the manifestation of physical properties based on information on the crystal structure of a material. Even materials with almost identical crystal structures can exhibit completely different properties, and to understand this, it is necessary to clarify the network of interactions between the constituent atoms and molecules. We use synchrotron radiation X-rays for measurements, and we study a wide range of materials.

I found it interesting to read the research that successfully visualized chemical bonds, which was announced in a press release in July 2024.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

This is a visualization of the chemical bonds in the molecule of glycine, an amino acid, which was directly observed, and shows that the electron cloud does not envelop the entire molecule, but is fragmented. I was surprised by the reaction, as I did not expect that research on a well-known substance that is even sold at pharmacies would attract so much attention. It seems that in the world of chemistry, different researchers have different understandings and models of chemical bonds. It was a very enjoyable experience for me to notice the difference in how chemists and physicists perceive electronic states.

This research method used synchrotron radiation X-rays at the large synchrotron radiation facility SPring-8 in Hyogo Prefecture, which are 100 million times brighter than conventional laboratory X-ray generators. One of the reasons this has attracted attention is that it is possible to selectively extract information about valence electrons by using X-rays of a quality unparalleled in the world, which is an indication of the hope that a new academic field will be developed.

The basic premise was that the bonding of electrons cannot be observed with the naked eye, so I think it is a great achievement to have been able to visualize it through experiments and calculations. I myself have conducted experiments at SPring-8. In my fourth year of undergraduate studies, I visited this cutting-edge, advanced facility for the first time, where researchers from all over the world gather, and was very impressed, which gave me the motivation to go on to graduate school and continue my research.

I think this research theme is wonderful, but how do you usually choose your research themes?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

I haven't really decided on a specific target substance. I've found things that seem interesting at academic conferences, research meetings, and papers, and have chosen substances based on the criteria that "it looks like I can get a single crystal of that material." The basis is to select a method different from existing research and to conduct research from a new perspective.
As I continue my research career for a long time, other researchers increasingly bring me materials and ask me if I want to work on them together, and there are still many themes that I have yet to resolve.

What do you value in your research?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

It is to do research that others have not done or that is difficult to do. Some people like to compete with others and be the top, but I am not very interested in external evaluations. I am the type of person who dreams about what I will see when I run down an empty road. As I said earlier, I will do research that I think is interesting using different methods, because I want to do something that no one else has done. The "treasure appraisal skills" that I have cultivated since my time Aoyama Gakuin University are helping me to achieve this.

However, if you are doing something that other researchers have not done, there is a disadvantage in that you will not be able to find other researchers working on the same topic, and you will have no one to discuss with. What do you think we should do about this issue?

That's difficult.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

The advice I give to my students on a daily basis is to publish a paper as the first author in a high-level academic journal overseas. If you do that, researchers from all over the world will come to you to discuss your research. The world is large, after all. If you want to become a researcher, I advise you to do your best to get at least one paper published in a well-known academic journal.

I see. I am also taught that a paper serves as a researcher's business card. I will cherish this awareness and work hard at my research. When you face difficulties while researching a topic that no one else has done, how do you overcome them?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

I don't face many difficulties. However, I do encounter the impossible. Impossible is not difficult, it's just something I can't do, and if I judge something to be impossible, I won't continue with the same approach. I will correctly identify what is impossible, make a calm judgment, and think of a new way to challenge it. However, I will cut corners on things that I don't need to do.

My motto is "Unpredictable events happen for no reason," and I also value the phrase "Nothing is impossible if you are motivated." Don't be too pessimistic about one result, take it easy, and do what you can. I think this is important.

3rd TALK

"How can I become a researcher?"

Be aware that you think it's interesting,
Go for it.

I understand that you became a professor at Nagoya University after working at a research institute. What made you decide to become a university professor?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

The reason is to train the next generation, continue research together, and contribute to the improvement of Japan's research and technological capabilities. When I was affiliated with the Institute of Materials Structure Science of the High Energy Accelerator Research Organization, we produced some highly noteworthy results and were involved in many papers. However, as I mentioned earlier, I am aiming to do things that no one else has done, so I began to worry that there would be no one to take over research in this field when I am gone. If things continue like this, cutting-edge research in synchrotron X-rays will taper off, so I thought, ``That's it!'' I left the institute to become a university professor, with the intention of training young people who will continue their research. That is why, at the university, we place great importance on education as well as research itself. In addition, I am very concerned about the shortage of human resources to support Japan's research and technological capabilities these days, and I wanted to be of some help. Fortunately, all of the doctoral students I supervised have taken academic positions at national universities and institutes after obtaining their degrees, and are developing structural physics research. Just as Aoyama cultivates "servant leaders" who embody the school motto, "Salt of the earth, light of the world," we would like to nurture the next generation of researchers and educators who can contribute to Japan and society.

** In the words of the Bible, it means serving those around us as "the salt of the earth" and guiding others as "the light of the world."
*** A person who finds his or her mission, willingly serves people and society, and is guided by that way of life.

What do you value as an educator?

Ono

Mr. Sawa

I also recommend interacting with people outside your field. Researchers spend nearly 10 years in a lab, from undergraduate to master's and doctoral programs, and can become so immersed in their field that they narrow their perspective on research if they are not conscious of it. Only by interacting with researchers in other fields can you understand what you are doing and how you should develop what you are currently involved in, and gain a bird's-eye view. Furthermore, if you do not have the skills to communicate with people outside your field, it is difficult to write a paper for a top academic journal. I would like you to actively communicate and broaden your perspective.

I enjoy experiments and feel that getting my hands dirty in the lab to collect data and understand phenomena is an important experience, but in order to understand the nature of my research, it is also important to deepen my interactions with people outside the university and in other fields. I would like to be more proactive in interacting with researchers from other fields at academic conferences and other events.

Including these points, please give a message to people aspiring to become researchers or university professors.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

If you want to be a researcher, you should treasure the heart that finds various things interesting and be aware of what you find interesting. Then, pursue what you find interesting to the end. This skill of "pursuing" is what a researcher needs, and it ultimately determines the value of a person's research. However, when pursuing, it is also important to objectively assess your own abilities. People who only care about immediate value, such as "what kind of research will attract attention" or "if I do this research, I can get a higher position," are not suited to being researchers. Even if things go well in the short term, discrepancies will arise at some point. I hope you will continue to treasure what you find "interesting" and pursue what you find interesting. It will be even more fun if you can find people who share your interests.

If you aim to become a university professor, as an educator you must put "educating people" first, find something new that no one has done before, and convey to your students the importance of immersing yourself in it.

I would like to become more sensitive to what I find interesting.

Ono

Mr. Sawa

Currently, as I work as a researcher, I am surprised to find that the education at Aoyama Gakuin University is somewhat different from other universities. For example, I did not understand the usefulness of the "error theory" taught by Professor Takashi Awaya (Professor Emeritus, Aoyama Gakuin University) at the time, but now I realize that it is essential knowledge for correctly interpreting data. The more I advance in my research, the more I understand how many researchers overlook things. Also, the fact that Professor Toshiya Komoda (Professor Emeritus, Aoyama Gakuin University), whose name is also attached to scholarships and academic awards, taught me quantum mechanics carefully and accurately has actually contributed greatly to my research. I regret that I was not able to thank him while he was alive. I hope that Mr. Ohno's research will benefit from the educational environment at Aoyama Gakuin University.

Yes, that's right. I would like to continue to learn by taking full advantage of the excellent environment at Aoyama Gakuin University. Thank you for sharing your valuable insights with me today.

Ono

After Interview

What hints did Mr. Ohno, who dreams of becoming a researcher, get from his conversation with Professor Sawa?

I want to rediscover the things I find interesting

Through Professor Sawa's talk, I was able to once again recognize the importance of finding something interesting. When I was thinking about going to university or graduate school, it seemed so obvious that I didn't really think about it. Research is about entering an unprecedented world that no one has ever reached before. I would like to take advantage of the fact that I am in an environment where I can feel that kind of fun up close and pursue what I find interesting. To that end, while I will immerse myself in unique research, I will also keep my antennae up in various directions to increase my insight, and actively challenge myself to come into contact with the outside world, including studying abroad, so as not to become a frog in a well.

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